Could WTPA2 feasibly do something like this?

edited April 2010 in WTPA Version 2 Design
Squarewave Parades Teaspoon pedal..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svxp4WKefbM

I gotta get me one of these! But it seems that with the right software jiggery pokery, a WTPA could do this, no problem?

I realise you can get a similar effect now, but this is that much more instant.
Food for thought?
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Comments

  • Sounds to me like a delay with feedback = 1. you can hear the sample degenerate each time it plays...
  • The teaspoon is such a disappointing/expensive thing.

    Buy a Boss DD-6, put it in hold mode, and never look back.

    Behold:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5M5EJbGMfg

    Jump 2 minutes in.

    The awesome part about the DD6 is the stutter is dynamic. The duration of it is defined by how long you hold your foot down, so each time you press it it sounds different. The Teaspoon is fixed. So you press that button all you want, and it will sound the same (unless you turn the knob). To me this sounds really flat/boring.

    The only thing the teaspoon does that the DD6 doesn't is mute the dry signal while the stutter is happening.

    Other than that, this would be super trivial to do in software. It's up to Todd as to wether or not he wants that thing in there. I'm happy with the DD6 for these sounds personally as I think it's the perfect incarnation of that effect.
  • Actually the teaspoon seems like a cool effect, and it would be cool if the WTPA had a button for "instant window shrink", then you can use the control knob to sweep it around and all that.

    I just hate that guy's "never have anything available, then when I do, slap it on ebay for crazy money" business model.
  • This can be done. I can't be sure of the specifics, but it is a "buffer override" type of effect. The Virus TI has this (the "atomizer") and it essentially just captures a short snip of audio into a buffer and loops it.
    Heck, that's all a delay really is, when you think about it.

    Edit: as smrl said.

    Do I hear a "buffer mode" feature request for the WTPA2?
  • Yeah, I follow what you are saying about the price/ebay thing. I can't stand bloody ebay..
    Still, I really like that effect :) I notice also that there has been a few different versions of that pedal, and I don't really know what all the differences are between them.
    If one of those Boss delay pedals could do this, i'd be all over it. But it doesn't appear to be doing quite what this is doing. Although quite similar, granted.
    If you search Youtube, there is quite a few other demo's of this in action too. Most of 'em quite good, to my ears!

    I think the inclusion of this effect into the next WTPA as being worthy of considerable leg humpage. Perhaps violently so..
  • Well people, I think you're really going to love the project i've been working on. It should be capable of that and a hell of a lot more...

    Basically it's 2 digital delays with two ins and two outs... each input can feed either delay or be off completely. Each delay can feed its output back into itself, into the other delay, or be off completely. All of the parameters (delay time, feedback, wet/dry) are digitally controlled by an atmega328 driving a digi-pot, and are manually controllable as well. The code's not done yet but the schematic/board layout is at about 90%.

    this type of an effect could easily be reproduced on the pedal, as well as a host of other, much more interesting delays I think. I'm not aware of anything remotely close to this at the moment...
    Hopefully there's interest. Right now it's just a personal project for myself and a band-mate.
  • Last night finished a nathan worster (www.worsteraudio.com) space baby delay. Nathan warned me its noisy, but I'm quite happy with it. Uses a PIC, mix, feedback, delay, andromeda style clock divide IR, but standalone if no signal.
    The digi pot encoder is neat: 4 push adjusts with an led for each., mod speed, mod depth, clock (nice) ring mod on and overdrive, all swept with the same pot, and i think one setting with all on all swept.
    2 1/2" x 3" board 1/4" jacks running on one 9v. http://woosteraudio.com/space-baby.html
  • edited April 2010
    That space baby delay is awesome! It's exactly what I've been searching for to install into my Voyager project. I'm also looking at incorporating a WSG and perhaps this space baby could be synced up to the WSG... the possibility excites me nonetheless. The thing that wins me over the most is how small this space baby kit is. Perfect size considering I have limited space inside my VA-10.

    * Edit: That Teaspoon pedal will be perfect for my Yamaha VSS-30 sampler expansion, (it's posts like these that remind me how glad I am to have joined this forum!). Awesome find guys! :)

    * BTW... where can I get myself one of those Teaspoons? There's nothing on eBay and that web address no longer seems to exist?
  • @Rodrigo ... "The only thing the teaspoon does that the DD6 doesn't is mute the dry signal while the stutter is happening."

    I'm guessing this issue could be rectified with a little tweaking or circuit bending? Or would it be buried too deeply somewhere in the ICs?
  • I don't mind it on the DD-6 as I generally use it with instruments/sources that I can personally mute as I want (ie, guitar), so I can stop playing, while I make a stutter. It's harder if you have a loop/drone playing into it, as you have to stop/restart it all the time manually.
  • Here's a Youtube video entitled "Lizard's Liquid Lounge, Circuit Bent Open Mic - 12/26/09 Chicago, IL Video 2/3 " and in it, you get to see a guy use the UCreate Music sampler in a live setting, running rhythms through it and doing some live stuttering, sample/hold stuff. It's a pretty good look at how this thing performs in a live situation. I could easily imagine WTPA sitting on that desk amongst all that equipment they have.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HFe1TdvgWQ&feature=related
  • Just to confirm.. That Hexe Revolver pedal is €299 + shipping. Availability in a couple of weeks or so..
  • Ok, I got mine today and gutted it.
    It's much smaller than I imagined from jump, which is good.

    You can strip it down to the main board and it works fine (I was worried about removing the main "front panel" daughter board). I only find 2 of the effects useful. The "stutter" one shown above (which does plenty of reverse stuff) and this "octave" one that does a similar thing (grabs and freezes a bit) but then transposes it (horribly) +/- 2octaves. So I'm going to replace the rotary switch with a SPDT, to pick between the two effects. It's a regular "common pin" rotary switch, so that's easy enough to do.

    http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa78/xgoddess1/ucreate.jpg

    The ball thing works fine out of the case like that, though it's starting to squeak a little, so it might need a little tending to.

    The main board is tiny. It could easily fit in a guitar pedal type enclosure. As far as interface goes, I'm thinking of reducing it to the following:
    1/4 input
    1/4 output
    SPDT toggle to pick between stutter/transpose modes
    3PDT to engage/bypass whole circuit
    SPST momentary stomp to engage the "hold" mode, so you can leave the effect "frozen" in place
    Blue Ball rocker

    I might try to open up the rocker ball, as see if that could get reduced down some more, but it seems pretty effecient (2axis movement + pushbutton + LED dance party). I think it would be easy enough to make an opening in a metal case that size, for the blueball to peek out of. It's just a matter of thinking how to lay it out (blueball at the bottom, or stomp switches at the bottom?

    A couple of questions.
    This runs of 6v (4 AA batteries). Would this be happy of 5v regulated input? (generic 9v guitar daisy chain into 5v voltage regulator). Should I use the iPod or Microphone inputs to feed it guitar level signal?
    Sometimes it doesn't seem to boot up right away? It does a "dancing LED" sequence when you turn it on, before it does anything else (including passing audio). Once in every 10 turn-ons (or maybe based on something else? I have to mess with it more) it turns on, but does no "dancing LED" routine, with the "record" LED coming on, and just sitting there. Since it's sitting out of the case something might be bumping something else, but it doesn't seem to be the case. Would removing the daughterboards have anything to do with this?

    Lastly, the sounds are awesome. Very cool toy, if for nothing more than those two effects.
  • nice work, Rodrigo!
    a guitar level signal should go in the microphone input, but you can try both and hear the difference.
    unfortunately this seems to be the only question i can tell sth about.
    enjoy your hack & keep us informed!
  • I'll update as I do more stuff. I've got a few things on the table at the moment that I need to take care of, but I'm very excited about tackling this.
  • edited May 2010
    @Rodrigo ... AWESOME work! You've just saved me a HEAP of trouble now. It's like I have myself a 'mini-guide' from the pioneer of UCreate strip-downs! :)

    I just bought myself a second UCreate Music Mixer and it arrived D.O.A ... i put fresh batteries in it and after I switch it on it just blinks its green lights around the rotary dial in the 'battery low' mode. I would say that this low battery warning also must mean there is a fault or malfunction. Pressing Reset does not solve the problem so I am forced to take it apart in an attempt to repair it. Ahhh well... as these things are so damn cheap, I can always fork out for another one :P

    In answer to your question... the power-on sequence can be interrupted if you press any of the front panel buttons. Select a loop before the light up sequence commences and the toy will immediately respond in the 'ready' mode and play the loop. I guess the sequence is nothing more than a soft boot-up self test that can be interrupted.

    In deciding which input to use... I found that the microphone input has a lower level than the MP3 input but is also somewhat 'noisier' at higher levels (volume and amp levels need adjusting). I find myself using the MP3 input more often for my source sounds because it seems 'cleaner' and able to handle far greater volume levels. Try experimenting with both, but make sure you don't send too much in to it! I've also discovered that you can do awesome feedback effects on these things too. Use a 1/8 inch stereo splitter adapter on the speaker output and plug into that some headphones (into one output) and a 1/8 inch cable into the other... then plug the other end of the 1/8 inch cable into the MP3 input and bring the volume down and then try the effects with some of the internal loops. You can do some cool feedback noise that is quite controllable with the blue rocker ball.

    I am looking into how i can replace the rocker ball with either a joystick or perhaps a playstation analog stick (like on the playstation controllers). It would be cool to use a playstation analog joystick as a rocker replacement and have it mounted in a much smaller case. The playstation analog controller stick is very similar to the blue rocker in that it also has the 2 axis movement and pushbutton controllability to it.

    Keep the rocker ball intact if you wish to use the ultra-cool discostrobe effect! :) Oh, and please keep us updated whenever you have some significant 'finds' or do something worthy of mention to it. I am as excited about digging into this device as much as you are as there is so much potential to make this one cool pedal!

    *Edit: I can't believe how simple the unit is... perhaps not so circuit-bendable because of the surface mounted components... but definitely expandable and open to mods and additional circuits! ;) And yes, you are right... the two effects on this device make it all worthwhile, but if you set it up for self-oscillating feedback then you will also find the echo effect to be quite useful too.
  • In relation to voltage... I need some advice on how to run two of these 6 volt UCreate toys on 9 volts. You see, I want to combine them with a couple of 9 volt pedal effects and would like to run the whole thing off a single 9 volt power source. I would need to build a simple circuit of some sort in order to allow the UCreate toys to run off 9 volts instead of 6. Can anyone lend me their vast knowledge and experience in this artform? I am cluey enough to understand and follow instructions on building and soldering electronics stuff, but I just don't have the know-how on where to start and what to do.

    So ... converting a 6 volt device into a 9 volt device. Any suggestions anyone? :)
  • Shame on me for cheating, and keeping the soldering iron in the cupboard. reVOLVER on its way :p
  • If it were me I'd just try feeding it 9v. It's probably got voltage regulation going on. Otherwise just slap a 7806 voltage regulator between your power supply and it. It's pretty obvious, just an in, common(ground) and out terminal. 9v goes in, 6v comes out. You can probably also get away with a 7805 here instead, but if you see something like that on the board already (look near where the power comes into the device) you can probably just skip it. Only thing to worry about is additional heat generated from running it from a higher V.
  • I wouldn't run it on 9v straight as the caps might not be rated that high. But using a regulator to get it down to 6v or 5v (4 AAs probably is 5.something anyways) should be fine. That's what I plan on doing.

    Here's some more info I figured out the other day.

    Ok, the ball is best left alone. It's real hard to take apart (I only got halfway into it) and there's a lot going on in there. It looks like 3 momentary switches on the bottom of it (spring mounted) and a 2axis lever/pot of some kind.

    Also, the board is just a smidgen too long for a standard small/medium pedal enclosure. It would fit in a hammond 1790 with room to spare though.

    At the moment I'm leaning towards housing the board and the I/O underneath my pedalboard, with just the ball and the switches on top. I've also dropped the idea of having a mode selection switch, and having stomp switches altogether. So it'll just be the ball and 2 toggle switches. Hell, maybe even a center off toggle. I'd have to figure out if routing will work that way but I only need fx on/off (true bypassing the toy out of the signal path) and the HOLD function is pretty awesome.
  • Also, I'm glad I'm not the only other guy excited about this. It's a real sophisticated piece of gear for what it is, no circuit bending needed.
  • edited May 2010
    @Rodrigo --
    What about this adjustable DC-DC step-up converter on eBay for $20 USD (item# 320520876393)?

    http://muse-audio.com/photo/album/iNmhjJZfAP_%60RFNDMDQ3NTU@.jpg

    It's has a 3.3-22V input as well as a 5-22V adjustable output and runs at 60W. It has a converting rate of 90% and is quite small in size. Could I use something like this in my projects whenever I need to connect a 6V circuit to a 9V input? I'm guessing (and hoping) it would be adequate enough to connect between a 9V power supply and a 6V circuit. If so, I'd gladly buy myself a few of these at such a low price.
  • That's overkill, and noisy. You need a three terminal adjustable linear LDO and a couple caps and resistors. Micrel makes good ones. Here's a link:

    http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=576-1138-ND

    I use the fixed output version of this guy all the time.
    xo
    TB
  • Would a straight 7806 and a 100uf cap fare alright? The description for that part you linked included the word "bulletproof". I'm not sure if I need my voltage regulated to that kind of spec.
  • @ Todd: That Micrel parts looks nice and has the same pinout as a 78xx parts... Would it fare better than a 7805 with a large voltage input heat wise? My MB808 uses a 15-0-15 transformer that is bridge rectified so the 5V vReg is getting 19V+ and runs hot as hell
  • @Rodrigo --
    Yep, a 7806 would work fine as long as your 9v rail never got below 8v. The LDOs just tend to have tighter regulation and are frequently less noisy, and let you get away with more chicanery.
    I use those micrel guys on most personal projects because I just don't want to worry.
    Obviously, the 7805 was just fine for WTPA :-)

    @Altitude --
    I believe it and I wish it worked like that. I doubt there would be much of a difference with any linear regulator with the problem you're having. Peep it:

    http://www.exar.com/Common/Content/Document.ashx?id=1225&LanguageId=1033
    http://www.daycounter.com/LabBook/Linear-Regulator-Thermal-Design.phtml

    Those both basically tell you that the power (heat) dissipated by your linear regulator has to do with the difference between the voltage in and voltage out TIMES the current the regulator is supplying to the circuit. So it's that high voltage that's your problem. There's also ground current to contend with and the Micrel might do better there but my guess is that it wouldn't matter much....

    I looked. The ground current difference is within a couple milliwatts. Not your problem.

    A switching regulator would fix this, but it's more trouble than it's worth for this I think. You might want to consider a heat sink though, or even a 12v pre-regulator or something. Or just live with it.
    Sorry!
  • @ Todd

    I have the biggest heatsink that will fit in there.. TI used to have a pin compatible switching regulator that had everything on it (it looked like a giant TO-220 case) so it was a drop in replacement for a 78xx but those were $20 and I am not sure they still make them. This isn't a major problem since it is just floating in air but it would be nice to be a little more efficient without hacking into the board.
  • edited May 2010
    @Rodrigo --

    Having the luxury of keeping a UCreate DJ Mixer that was sent to me DOA, (fully refunded of course!) I decided to spend some moments pulling apart the rocker dome on it. After stripping it right down to the bare essentials, I found nothing more than a simple joystick, (that looks like it's made out of some sort of cheap tin or really weak looking metal), a couple of surface mounted LEDs and a round PCB with a bunch of rubber 'nipples' attached to it and arranged in a triangular formation. Under those 'nipples' I found 3 membrane switches that are all joined together by a PCB trace for the obvious purpose of performing the same, single action across a 360 degree area... just a simple 'on/off' state to turn on and turn off the effect.

    So really, the UCreate DJ Mixer is controlled by nothing more than a 2-way (X/Y) joystick and two sample/hold buttons. One sample/hold button is located under the rocker dome and the other is located on the outer control area. Really, both actions do exactly the same thing only the 'Hold' button allows for hands-free manipulation whilst the hidden 'Hold' button inside the rocker dome only works when the dome is pressed. So breaking this down even further, as you mentioned, is an X/Y joystick and a single hold button. This is exactly how most basic and traditional arcade-style joysticks are set up, just an X/Y stick and a single fire button. So knowing this would make a custom or retro-fit job incredibly easy (and fun!).
  • @ Todd,
    Not to derail this thread but your thoughts on something like this: http://www.dimensionengineering.com/datasheets/DE-SW0XX.pdf (for the digital side of course)
  • not to de-rail anything, but where can you buy these ucreates reasonably cheap? They are on amazon for about 60 euros. while it may be okay IF something cool comes out of this, I don't want to spend 60 bucks on something that really has the fair chance of being killed during the rehouse. any cheaper places?
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