Hi!
So I've started messing around with designing the new version of WTPA.
I _could_ just re-release the old version, but I'd prefer to make some design changes, since there are plenty of things that aren't perfect about WTPA v1.
And, since I'm at it....

So, here are the things that will definitely change:

1.) WTPA 2 will have 8 controller buttons and not six (the very first one had 5 I think). This will allow us to avoid the dreaded 3-button combo when accessing functions.
However, this means two more buttons, and one more shift register IC and socket. This costs more.

2.) There will be a through hole RAM chip. This means the whole kit will be through hole (no smt). This will probably cost about the same, but the board will need to get a little bigger.

3.) The analog sample clock will be based on a 4046 and not an op-amp relaxation oscillator. I can do this because I don't need the extra op-amp section for overdubbing. This will cost a little less and will also allow CV input to the clock.

4.) The control pot will be replaced with an endless rotary encoder. This will help in all kinds of subtle ways. This may cost a hair more. Given enough pins, I may add a second encoder.

5.) The MCU will be either an Atmega644p or 324p, simply because I want the freedom to add new functions and we're pretty much out of flash memory on the 164. This will also give us more RAM which may help some of the granularizing functions, and may be able to help with ISR speed if I'm smart about buffering. Those chips are still a 40-pin dip. They cost more.

6.) Some of the values in the analog section will change, which will result in slightly more headroom. This will probably cost about the same.

7.) The bus which is just hanging out doing nothing on the v1 WTPA will be used to access permanent memory. There will be an optional daughterboard which will contain a flash memory chip and will be able to store either 8, 16, or 32 samples depending on how some pricing and availability works out for me. I _might_ implement a sample loader via MIDI. Maybe. The daughterboard will come assembled (all that stuff is small smt biz) and will cost more than $20. Not sure how much more. So permanent storage will be optional.

8.) Instead of a hardware goodie bag, there will be another optional board which will have PCB mounted jacks for MIDI, Audio, and DC. Second to the RAM chip, most build problems in V1 were in the wiring. This should eliminate that problem. This board will mount under the main board. This will _probably_ be more expensive than the goodie bag, but may not be depending on some of the jack pricing.

9.) The routing from the input amp to the AVR will change A LOT. This should lower the noise floor a little.

10.) Because of all these changes, the board will be bigger. Probably not a lot bigger, though. My guess is the price will go up a little too.

Let me know what you think! Now is a great time to hit me with suggestions.
There's another thread for feature requests, too.
Also, anybody who says ANALOG FILTER gets the gas face :-)
Hell, I might as well just go ahead and start a new thread for that too....

xo
TB

hmm...

todd, does the new ram alow for permanent sample storage? it would be cool to have a (switchable) option to store samples permanent.
will there be a kit at all, or will it be plain pcb to buy?

regarding strangeAgent proposistion of the 2 or 3 line display - you can alread do that no? I remember someone on here used a display on their wtpa. it takes away from the oldskool flavor though...

Consider adding a .1" header (SIL or DIL) with all of the front-panel pot/led connections on it... That would possibly decrease the chances of miswired WTPA's, surely for ones with off-board mounted controls. also I believe I remember seeing a photo of an early WTPA board that had a little proto section on it -- you may not have room in the end but I thought that was clever...

In general, it'd be nice to see it a little more hackable. Instead of vias everywhere it might be nice to have holes with pads.
And this leaves more room for error, but jumper points between circuit sections would be cool. To make it a little more modular/patchable. For example, if the output of your input buffer/gain stage was connected to a jumper that could be removed if you wanted to put a different gain stage in its place (say if you were interested in interfacing with 10Vp-p signals)

I know that this wouldn't appeal to TOO MANY but it's a feature I'd be interested in. thought I'd throw it out there.

Also, if you're doing 8 buttons it may be worthwhile to consider using a push-button rotary encoder as one of the buttons. I've found it's a very handy + tactile approach. Not sure how that would work its way into the UI.

Probably would require a few more IC's but you could add exponential CV scaling for proper pitch-tracking with 1v/oct gear...

That all sounds awesome. I really stoked about it.

8 buttons is nice, particularly if user definable. As is a rotary encoder. As mentioned, a pushbutton one would be nice. Two encoders is better.

I like the expandable idea. I probably wouldn't use permanent storage much, but I'd probably buy it to know I could.

The PCB mounted I/O is awesome.

Overall, it would be nice to have it be easier to set it up in a more 'pro' manner. I like the little buttons/pots onboard, but it's a lot of wiring to set it up in a bigger/sturdier case and all.

All noise reduction/headroom stuff would be awesome.

I also second the hackability. Granted, I didn't try bending mine much (at all really), but if there was a particularly "juicy" area for bends, it'd be sweet if it was organized/labeled/grouped as such.

Would you consider a case and faceplate? I was/am still a newbie at DIY stuff, and I remember being a little apprehensive at first when looking at the WTPA because of lack of an enclosure, faceplate, etc... I can see other people who might be on the fence about DIY, and who are eager to try, but might end up avoiding the WTPA unless the kit was "complete". Sure, they could purchase the assembled unit from you as you have hinted that you will do, but I think there a lots of people who *want* to get into the DIY route, but who will only do so if they have the whole shebang included...

has an LCD screen been mentioned? 8 buttons, more features than you can shake a stick at, sounds hectic. it would be nice to know exactly where the party is at, if you know what i mean.

shruti-1-a-like...

A better UI could definitely improve things, since more and more is being added, and it's already pretty complicated/confusing.

How about the sampling/looping/bank stuff only ever does that. Period.

Then the "leftover buttons" handle all the function/effect/edit stuff. Maybe another set of LEDs to scroll through FX, so you only need 1 button to pick what's going to happen, then the other buttons to control how it happens. Might get confusing with multiple things happening at once, but it could go towards streamlining the UI.

could backlit led buttons/encoders/combined with silk screen legend be used in a pinch for a rudimentary UI?

http://top-up.so-buy.com/front/bin/ptdetail.phtml?Part=LED-CCL-M&Category=336089

http://top-up.so-buy.com/front/bin/cglist.phtml?Category=325007

Holy shit, who cares if those are useful! Those are AWESOME. I'm getting a quote right now.
Thanks!
TB

Those LED encoder ring gadget things sure do look neat! I hope a good excuse is found to incorporate them somehow. And to make them useful too of course! I confess, I am a sucker for ze pretty flashing lights..

I guess slightly less fancy single colour led rings would be damn nearly as nice, and plenty sufficient though.. And likely cheaper?

Yes :) Although for a rotary encoder, im thinking a 360 degree one has to be more suitable. Im sure they must exist, as quite a few synths and hardware controllers use this kind of thing these days.
If I remember rightly, some of the early digital mixing desks didn't have the convenience of these ready made LED rings. Instead there were individual surface mount LED's placed around the encoder on the main mobo. Perhaps that is still an option for the WTPA too? Although that would be a chore to solder!

As much as I'm always dissing the MIDI maybe a USB->MIDI option, so you could plug one of those korg nanokontrols directly into it without having mess with midi/power cables. Or just have the Party Control type thing.

If it had usb, perhaps it could be programmable via that too? For the "finished product" purchasers.

Multiple parallel input/outputs for people interfacing with a bunch of bits of gear. Not stereo, just 2 ins feeding the same circuit, and 2 outputs coming out of it on the other end.

whhhat about a conductive pad that you could get all finger wiggly on. like that manta controller. you could select an effect, and have a good wiggle on the pad amazing everyone with your moves.



http://www.snyderphonics.com/products.htm

I love capacitive sensors.
I almost DID design WTPA2 with touchsensors instead of buttons mostly to make button mounting cheaper and easier. But there's a whole other set of cat-herding that gets involved then.
The pic on the main page right now is what inspired me to do it the capacitive way. But in retrospect, the buttons won out. A button is pretty simple.
TB

Makes it easier, actually! You can use any old bolt or piece of copper or whatever, and multi-button presses work the same way. Hell, you can even have "analog buttons" where it matters how HARD you're pressing the button. They're cool.

then you install spring-loaded sensors and an IDC connector on your crazy gloves

wuz just foolin really...

i officially can't think of anything else... some kind of mini party oven for reheating snacks p'raps?

...

The LED ring could easily handle the UI, which at the moment is teetering on the edge of understandability, much less with the features.

The capacitive buttons I agree with, but I think those were only mentioned in passing, not as part of a real implementable idea.

At the moment, the encoder/LED ring are the only 'bells and whistles' there. It would cost more, I would imagine, designing and getting 2 boards made up, than having the 1 single board for everyone.

Since you've not actually used a WTPA it's harder for you to gauge the current UI and what needs to happen with it.

If the encoder/circular LED are used to select what mode/effect or something critical like that, it would be very difficult, to impossible to use it without that.

There was an abandoned (?) Itty Bitty Party Committee, that would probably have been ideal to house inside of other things.

Also keep in mind the first WTPA was around $80, so we're not talking a lot of money here. It's not like getting it without the LED ring will knock off a couple of hundred bucks or anything.

Also, since the first version was available as just the PCB, I'm assuming this one will be as well, so you could buy what you want, and source the rest yourself and all that.

A 2 digit alphanumeric LED is more complicated an an LED wheel, both from a construction (square holes anyone?) as well as a programming standpoint (you need all sorts of extra code to handle the text).

So what you're describing is the opposite of what you're asking for. Simpler and cheaper.

I for one want an 8 x 8 matrix of infrared LED's that can only be seen with night vision goggles and only output binary values.